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Author Topic: Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)  (Read 141 times)

craig.w

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Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)
« on: April 14, 2019, 12:29:17 PM »
We played an early game this time around, no muskets, my Russians of Ivan the Terrible were 40% mounted bow and 60% arquebus/2H  strealtsy or arquebus armed cossacks (should have been much more cavalry than foot at this time, but it was easier to just drop the muskets from an existing army than do a whole new army - and the figures were already out). Charles the 5th had a kiel, a couple of colunelas, some HFP Spanish arquebusiers,a unit of gendarmes, a couple of lancers and a couple of mounted arquebusiers. So although I had 17 TUGs and an impressive 9 break point, I had to somehow make my extra 4 TUGs count. Which I didn't.

One side of the board had a secure flank of mountains and forest, a few base widths across was a town and next to that a patch of broken ground. One unit of HFP Spanish arquebusiers faced a unit of Cossack foot and a unit of streltsy on the secure flank.

In the middle was one superior kiel and two superior colunelas and a unit of HFP arquebusiers against a unit of Cossack foot and 4 streltsy.

The cavalry lined up opposite each other on the other flank, 5 Tugs of 4 bases on each side. 1 superior armoured Russians, 2 average unarmoured Russians, 1 Tatars and 1 Cossacks with lance, all AFP bow, vs 1 fully armoured superior gendarmes, 2 armoured lancers and 2 mounted arquebusiers.

In between the cavalry and the middle I had 3 batteries of medium guns with two streltsy in support of them. Charles the 5th had two batteries of heavy guns, otherwise unsupported, but I couldn't get to them.

The game opened with artillery fire battering a colunela on the Charles the 5th side and he smashed a cossack unit on the Russian side, the Russian foot decided to seize the town and broken ground (ie hide in terrain) to avoid the kiel steamroller and colunela mini steamrollers, and chase down the Spanish arquebusiers while trying to somehow get some shots with pitifully short ranged arquebus.

The gendarmes caught one Tug, routed it, pursued, then came back to take out another, a unit of lancers took out my Cossack cavalry and then was in a position to flank charge my guns after its pursuit. The other lancers beat up on another hapless Russian cavalry unit, and the arquebusiers ran away from my superiors and a streltsy TuG I sent after them.

I routed the two colunelas, one from artillery fire, the other from two streltsy units ganging up on it. Meanwhile one cossack unit was routed by artillery and another streltsy by one of the HFP arquebusiers. The kiel was just hanging in the open while I had two streltsy in the town, doing not much with their 2BW range arquesbuses.

I conceded once the lancers were in a position to charge my guns in the flank, where he probably would have scored 3 routs in one charge phase.

It was an interesting game because neither of us had used arquebus before, or bow against armoured troops. My conclusion from very short, sharp encounters on the cavalry flank was that mounted bow in this period is terrible. 3 of the Tugs were armoured, or fully armoured, so the bows were shooting him on black, or black minus if I ran away. If I choose to skirmish and get a shot on black, he'd fight red against white at impact, and green against white in melee. If I don't shoot, it's still yellow against white at impact. Either way dead cavalry. I just had no answer with my cavalry, although mine were more expensive than his. Bow is actually more useful in later period armies against unarmoured cavalry (although when armour categories change will be interesting to see). The answer might be to max out the cavalry and take his flanks (or just win by attrition), and leave the streltsy to fight a holding mission in the centre, behind barricades once they make an appearance in the army builder, which would be a more historical tactic in any case for this period Russians.

Arquebus really changes the way terrain plays a role. I could hide in there and not be shot at because the colunelas etc couldn't get in range, but also the opponent can pretty much ignore anything in terrain because 2BW range doesn't allow them to influence anything out side that terrain. They probably made the game slower than if we had muskets.

After the first game of this period, I'm looking forward to some more, but I'll be more prepared with an appropriate army. Also would be handy to have barricades in the army builder, my streltsy feel a bit naked without it in this period. The HFP Spanish arquebusiers seemed a bit dubious too.

Cheers,

Craig


alasdair

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Re: Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 08:19:25 PM »
Hi

as ever thanks for this it is much appreciated, I love to read about games, I have yet to really write earlier russian lists I will make sure to add in barricades, add them anyway, by the way by the end of this week there will be posted on the main wargames zone website the latest version of the rules and updated lists though I know I still have to do some more work on early lists. Cant remember wher I got Spanish HFP from I think it was from an article about their discipline, drill and effectiveness but as ever happy to review

Cheers

Alasdair

StephenB

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Re: Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2019, 03:42:40 AM »
It was an interesting game, with the artillery proving more effective due to the additional depth of the the Spanish infantry. Since the Russians would not come out of terrain it meant there where no infantry melees which was a shame as I wanted to see how a Superior Armoured Kiel performed so they where just 2500+ points of intimidation.

Terrain was one of the deciding factor for the game, I decide to push the gap between the protected flank and the Town with 1 of the Colunela which allowed the Russians to concentrate fire of 2 units with a third in support I should of held back and used it to prevent an advance on my Camp.

The two issues I had with the Cavalry where fumbling the transition from Skirmisher to Loose Formation for the Mounted Arquebusiers  and attaching the General to the Impetuous unit and having him dragged well out of command range of the remainder of his command. Both of these where due to lack of practice on my part not an issue with the troops

Craig's major issue was that his bow armed cavalry was ineffective against cavalry with armour.

craig.w

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Re: Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2019, 04:43:14 AM »
Since the Russians would not come out of terrain it meant there where no infantry melees which was a shame as I wanted to see how a Superior Armoured Kiel performed so they where just 2500+ points of intimidation.

I didn't need to get hit by a keil to know that fighting red against white in both charge and melee wouldn't be very good for me ;D ;D ;D

craig.w

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Re: Charles Vth vs Early Russian (Ivan the Terrible)
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 04:52:30 AM »
Sorry, forgot you had elan - red + white against black in charge combat.  :(