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Refights and After Action Reports / Re: Poles v Swedes, 11k
« Last post by RobAustin on Today at 09:08:11 PM »
Now for the battle report.

The two Kevins, Stork and Dunn, commanding the Swedes faced off against Beka and me running the Poles.

The Poles had 4 PBS cards and the Swedes 6. The Swedes won the Att/Def roll and chose to defend in Forest with a flank protected by a river. Kevin beat me on every card play, so we stayed just where the Swedes wanted the battle to be. Oh, well.

During terrain placement, the Swedes took a BUA and enclosed fields, while we Poles took plain fields. The BUA ended up on the flank. Beka rolled a 6, but for aesthetics we wanted to leave the BUA on the battlefield and just shoved it into the corner. Then we rolled for the rest of the terrain. Even though we are in forest, Beka rolled 6s to remove two of the Swedish terrain pieces and we moved the other back into the corner. The Poles selected no additional terrain. So we ended up with a pretty empty battlefield in the end.

For Scouting, I got 3 cards to the one Swedish. However, because he had so many cards in PBS, he had saved a red card and I drew 3 greens. Yuck. Completely cavalry force with scouting and evading troops and dragoons were outs couted. Oh, well. :P

As we Poles had to deploy first, it was pretty tough to get the best matchups. That's OK, I wanted to see how some specific matchups would work.


Swedes are on the left with their infantry deployed in echelon to defend against a sweeping envelopment by the Poles. They deployed all their cavalry against my Rajtars on the far flank, whom they rightly determined were the weakest part of the Polish army. Most of the Hussars were deployed on the Polish left with Pancernis in the center and then the Rajtars and Dragoons. The Cossacks extended the Polish right and Tartars extended the left. Our guns were in the middle between the Rajtars and Pancerni. Our big surprise was deploying the big six-base Hussar regiment behind the guns!

Swedish Left

Polish Right and Center

Polish Center and Left

Kevins Dunn and Stork Command the Swedes

Beka Commanded the Left and Rob the Right of the Polish Royal Army

Swedish Refused Right Flank

Turn 1

After an initial cannon barrage, the Polish Hussars surge forward on the near flank. The rest of the army moves forward at a more sedate pace. The Swedish foot face the on-coming storm. On the far flank the Swedes edge forward and bring out the Finns to threaten the Polish right, protected by Cossacks and Dragoons. Weak!

Turn 2

Polish Hussars close to charge range on the near flank. Pancerni edge forward to pin the Swedish center. The large Hussar regiment have double moved, expanded and then moved forward to face all the Swedish cavalry, which have moved forward. The Polish Rajtars fell back to give the Hussars room to expand and then move.

Turn 3

The Hussars strike! On both flanks the Hussars went in. On the near flank two units each hit a Swedish foot TuG. One was completely destroyed by defensive shooting and Impact. The other Hussar survived, but just barely. On the far flank the six-base Hussar smashed into three Swedish horse TuGs. Two Latta Rytarre and a Karbinytarre, breaking one unit in melee. Also on that flank, the Finns charged the Cossacks, who managed to kill a base and skirmish out of the way.

Turn 4/5

I missed taking a picture on turn 4, where things did not change much on the near flank, as Kevin rolled terribly and did not even inflict a single wound on the Hussars in melee. On the far flank the Finns charged again, suffered more from firing and were in a very bad position, with Rajtars and Cossacks on two sides about to pour in the fire.

The most interesting development was in the center, where I moved up the Pancerni to close range to trade shots with the Swedes. We were shooting even with White+ and traded casualties evenly, or in some cases, the Swedes suffered a bit more. The battalion guns had the opportunity to make a difference, but did not roll any additional hits. The Karbinytarre were seen off by shooting from the Dragoons.

On turn 5 the Swedes finished off the second Hussar unit and the Finns went down to defeat from shooting. In the fight against the big hussar regiment, Kevin threw in the Mercenary Kuirassiers, but to no avail, as the other Latta Rytarre broke.

We had to call it at that point, with the Poles having lost 2 Hussar TuGs and the Swedes lost 4 cavalry TuGs. It was still up in the air, but the Swedes were having a hard time.

I had a great time! After the Hussars went down to ignominious defeat early, I was a bit downcast. However, the large Hussar unit redeemed Polish honor and the Pancerni performed above all expectations.

So, I tried to use the Hussars as I had read from the battles, which was that they were not afraid to attack infantry formations. This did not go well at all. From my reading of the historical accounts, the Hussars were often able to make several such charges, recalling and charging repeatedly. As the factors are, there is little opportunity for this, as the Hussars are white versus P&S green. And they Hussars are actually better in melee, so if you are not destroyed on the charge, you want to remain and fight, rather than break off and charge again. Having seen the vulnerability of the small TuGs, I would certainly run them in sixes, I think.

On the other hand, one TuG of six bases of Hussars handled 16 bases of Swedish cavalry very roughly. Granted, Kevin was rolling pretty poorly, so we only took three wounds, but when you're rolling white and black dice, it is tough!

I see that there are almost no drilled troops. I would argue that Hussars at the top of their game would be a candidate.

The Pancerni were the surprise success of the battle, and as I learned more about their factors and ranges, it becomes even more interesting. I closed to effective and shot it out with the Swedish foot, which worked pretty well, given the relative point costs. However, in the future, I would try to remain at 2.5 BW, so that the Pancerni would be shooting with white dice and the infantry shooting back with black (down for shooting at mtd at extreme range). This interaction seems a bit off.

Polish Tactics
Given the above realisations, I would buy more Pancerni and skirmish with them to reduce the enemy initially. Then, having kept the Hussars in reserve, would send them in when the enemy foot are reduced. It seems like a good approach for the game, but does not really seem to fit the descriptions of the battles, where the Hussars strike early and often while the Pancerni and other parts of the army occupy the enemy elsewhere.

Questions and Comments:
  • When rolling to move Compulsory terrain, can it be removed on a 6?
  • When placing walled fields, do you roll for sector, or just place them next to the village, if there is one? If the village was not placed, you lose all the walled fields, correct? Can the opponent roll to move, remove the walled field, as long as it remains touching the village? (We allowed the rull and I shoved the walled field back toward the Swedish baseline while maintaining contact with the village.
  • What is the rule for even throws. More than 2BW from edge required, or just allowed to be touching or not? (I think the rules say one thing and the pre battle booklet another.
  • I'm not saying that Hussars should easily overthrow infantry, but there seems little opportunity to engage in some historical tactics. But this seems to be an issue with all cavalry versus P&S. So, it seems that the cavalry suffer too much when trying to discomfort the foot and are rendered useless from shooting, charge and melee casualties, so they never get the chance to try again.
  • The match up of the Pancerni versus the P&S for shooting seemed to greatly favor the Pancerni, especially given the point costs.
Refights and After Action Reports / Re: Poles v Swedes, 11k
« Last post by alasdair on Today at 08:01:34 PM »
Feel free to write a list for the deluge
Beta General Discussion / Re: Latest Version
« Last post by alasdair on Today at 08:00:12 PM »
Refights and After Action Reports / Poles v Swedes, 11k
« Last post by RobAustin on Today at 07:50:54 PM »
So, on Sunday we wanted to try the Swedes and Poles. Initially we thought to play the Deluge, but there is no Swedish list for that, so we reverted to the 1620s.

Here is the Polish List from 1620 - 1629:

CinC Comp/Inst 600
Sub Comp/Inst 400
Sub Med/Inst 200
Sub Med/Inst 200

6 x Hussar 1308
4 x Hussar 872
4 x Hussar 872
4 x Hussar 872
6 x Pancerni 780
6 x Pancerni 780
6 x Cossacks 750 (I made them both scouts and independent, which makes them too expensive by 24 points.)
6 x Tatars 714 (I made them both scouts and independent, which makes them too expensive by 24 points.)
6 x Rajtars 660
6 x Rajtars 660
4 x Dragoons w/Arquebus 482
2 x Medium Guns

So, that is 12 units and only 10 command points. At 11K I cannot see making the commanders more expensive, that's for sure.

Kevin Stork will need to post the Swedish list.
Beta General Discussion / Re: Latest Version
« Last post by pikeman on Today at 06:35:01 PM »
Where? I'm going in circles between the website links that are circular, and here.
Refights and After Action Reports / Re: TYW Play Test
« Last post by alasdair on Today at 05:53:40 PM »
1) I think moving first will be very important for some armies, I want to move first with my ottomans to allow space to fall back with my cavalry but is possibly less important than in MEG

2) Yes absolutely, will change

3) Defender choses a piece then attacker and so on till all compulsory are done, they are then placed, then you can choose optional, dont forget different from MeG on 1 and 6 ends up in the flank sector
Beta General Discussion / Re: Latest Version
« Last post by Texas Rebel on Today at 05:29:01 PM »
There is a new version of the Army Builder that addresses your issue.
Beta General Discussion / Re: Latest Version
« Last post by pikeman on Today at 05:13:27 PM »
I'm using the ReG3.1 latest army builder tool and have discovered am omission.
On the List for French 1645-42 the armor type for a number of foot units is "protected". This option is missing from the list box for foot TuGs.
Also, are "Unarmored", and "Unprotected" redundant?
best regards
Refights and After Action Reports / Re: TYW Play Test
« Last post by Texas Rebel on Today at 04:54:33 PM »
Some general questions about Setup from the playtest :

1) Even with Strategic Intercept, we had a difficult time determining whether there were any real benefits to choosing to be the Invader.

2) Sand Dunes are allowed in Cultivated? Is this a holdover from MeG, because C used to be Coastal instead of Cultivated?

3) Do you pre-select all terrain before rolling for placement, or do you alternate selection & placement with the other player?
Refights and After Action Reports / Re: TYW Play Test
« Last post by alasdair on June 23, 2019, 12:58:02 PM »
Good point, so looks like they stay with most western troops being flexible
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